[LM_NET] HIT: Sec. Intershelving NF and Ref.?

[Liz Dodds <lizdodds@SBCGLOBAL.NET>]

Should we intershelve or shouldn't we? Short answer: yes. Thanks to the many who 
answered. There will be more but I wanted to post a hit when the answer was clear 
and before it would be too long to post!
See below...
Opinions on Intershelving Reference and Non Fiction May 2007

Many years ago I took all the ref and did just that -interspersed them with 
non-fiction. It sort of worked. What seemed to happen was that the 'really big 
reference books' kind of took over the shelves. I can't really remember why I 
didn't like that, but what I decided to do was to almost eliminate my reference 
section. I decided to make about 90% of them circulating - I couldn't really figure 
out why I didn't want them to go out, so I just let them. They usually have a one 
week circulating period. [all other books go out for 4 weeks] . My basic rule for 
the 'volume sets' are like yours - if they have one continuous index, then they 
stay together, otherwise I shelve them by individual subject.  The area in my new 
library I have for reference consists mostly of encyclopedias, a pretty big career 
section and those facts-on-file binders.  
Actually you've gotten me to thinking about this again - I think I'll go browse 
those shelves and see which ones should go back to the non-fiction shelves!!  I 
like the idea of as many books as possible on the non-fiction shelves. I guess it 
all comes down to circulation - should they go out or not? I tend to like letting 
them go out.
___

I LOVE the idea! I've been moving more and more of my reference into the nonfiction 
area because the students tend to look for their info sources in the nonfiction and 
not in the reference. Former reference books that were never even glanced at before 
are being finally being used in nonfiction. I've even moved multivolume sets into 
the nonfiction area. The only thing I've left in reference are those books that get 
used all the time (general encyclopedias, almanacs, biography encyclopedias, 
atlases, quotation books, etc.) I've also kept the really large multivolume sets in 
reference just because of their size. When it comes time for a teacher to do a unit 
of study, I pull all those books (reference and nonfiction) and put them on the 
reserve shelves. And if your students are now using books that they never did 
before (because they used to be in reference) I can't see your teachers or a 
replacement minding. Good luck with your new arrangement!
___

 We intershelve reference and nonfiction. It makes the entire
collection visible and accessible. Our circ system allows us to
designate items as non-circulating. We keep the REF preface on the call
number so that if we decide to shelve reference separately, it will be
simple to pull the collection. We have very few reference books in our
collection. Almost everything circulates. We do put items on reserve
when we know many students will be needing titles on that topic.
    I don't view this arrangement as personal preference, just wise
resource management. Even if my successor does see it another way, it
should be easy enough to change it.
_

I've been thinking about this, too. I would interfile all reference and nonfiction, 
except maybe some general encyclopedias and dictionaries, etc - which I could put 
on a small divider shelf near the homework area.
I would continue to allow all reference to circulate overnight. Kids would know if 
it's overnight or two week loan by the "R" above the call no#. Just like we have 
now. This has worked fine!
Except for the move around, it would be pretty painless. When we need reference set 
aside for an assignment, now, I literally set things aside on a reserve book cart. 
I might have 3 of them going depending on the projects. I hang a sign on the back 
of the cart, for example,  "Reserved for 11R - In LMC use only."
I retire in 3 years, so I imagine the new LMS might freak, but it would be 
interesting to try. Just yesterday, kids were looking for Emperor Penguin info and 
they never saw 2 really really nice reference sources because they were on the 
other side of the room!
___
I recently taught a Reference class in a library that had intershelved a great deal 
of its reference and nf. If I were back in a school library I would do the same, 
for the very reasons you mentioned. I would probably still have a R section, but it 
would be a lot smaller.--mabell
___
I did just that last year and I am happy with. Students would not go to a seperate 
section for reference.  I think it has increases usage, it is hard to judge because 
they still don't circulate but students will copy a couple of pages.  It also makes 
it easier for me to prepare a cart on a subject and refile it.
___
I interfile my ref and find that the ref titles are used more because they are 
together with the other books on that topic.  I’ve found that most kids will not 
make the extra effort to go to a separate section to look for books.  Too many 
restrictions will discourage them.  I want students to use Ref titles and I want to 
see this usage in my statistics.  If they use them only in the library, I check 
them in to record “in library usage.”  To prevent vandalism (because of not being 
able to check out) I allow Ref books to be checked out overnight.  You can do 
whatever you want in terms of circ policies.  I usually ask the teachers if they 
would like us to limit or not check out books on their topics.  If not, I want kids 
to check out as many books as they want.
  ___
1.  The computerized catalog should help kids see the entire list of your 
holdings.This is what they will be using to find the books.
2.  I like the reference area because I do a lot of teaching from that area, and I 
show the kids what's available in each title and how to use it.
3.  I am moving over to electronic books for reference purposes, to eliminate the 
problem of having several kids all wanting to use the same volume at the same time.
4.  A reference area is great if your library has the room for it. I created one 
here, because the former lilbrarian has interfiled them with the non-fiction books. 
She probably ran out of room.  I weeded furiously and that solved the problem.
5.  IFyou pull the big reference books out and interfile them, you will have to 
adjust your shelf heights to take care of those tall books. Kids will ignore books 
if they can't see the spines, and then you will have defeated the purpose of 
interfiling them.
Just a few thoughts. 
By the way, the teachers and kids LOVE my electronic reference books!  They have 
citation links that they can copy and paste.  They can search the index, table of 
contents, read on-line, copy and paste, or print out parts of the articles.
I still bought the hardback for a 75% discount, because not all kids have internet 
access at home and I use them when I introduce a topic
___
I put books on reserve  (in library use only) or overnight or 2 night  circ for 
class  projects. Of course this only works if you can get the teachers to notify 
you before it starts. Often I don't realize what is going on until the 3rd student 
asks for  a book on, oh, say, ancient Egyptian burial practices...and it's too late.
I would not mix ref. with non fic. because it would be too confusing. I would 
constatnly have kids bringing ref. books to the circ desk.
good luck!
___
I don't see a problem with intershelving non-circulating REF books with the NF 
books if you have a label on the spine above the call number that says FOR LIBRARY 
USE ONLY and another label stating the same thing where a barcode would go.  That 
makes it very clear to students that it contains material in their subject area, 
but needs to stay in the room, and also makes it easy for another librarian to 
remove those books from the NF section to put back in a REF section if he or she 
wanted to do that.
___
Before I left the elementary school I was at, I interfiled both the Reference and 
the bilingual materials [items in Spanish].  Teachers really did love the idea 
because they didn't have to look in twelve different places to try to find the best 
resources.  We marked our reference materials on the spine, and because we had 
beginning readers, we put a stop sign icon by the barcode on the front cover.  This 
served as a reminder to the students that they could enjoy the material in the 
library, but they couldn't check it out.  It was also helpful to our parent 
volunteers who helped with circulation to see that stop sign.  We had a little 
label that read, "This item is not available for student checkout."
 
The one reference thing I did do, however, was to create a shelf of items labeled 
"Ready Reference".  This made for great lessons at the beginning of the year as I 
set the items out and asked the kids to figure out how I picked the things to go 
onto the shelf.  The rest of the year, all the kids would come down asking for the 
"I need the answer quick" section-- because that's what they determined was the 
selection criteria for an item being labeled ready reference.  That way I could 
still keep the general encyclopedia sets together, have dictionaries, thesauri, and 
atlases on hand, etc.  All of the subject area reference, however, got interfiled 
by Dewey.
 ___
For what it’s worth:  I am in the process of interfiling my Reference and 
non-fiction.  I just couldn’t see the point in looking two places in a small school 
library ( about 6000 titles).  I am leaving them marked reference and 
non-circulating; however, I over-ride the non-circulating fairly often (if it isn’t 
a multi-volume, expensive set.)  I am optimistic about this working well—although, 
like you, I was afraid I was killing a sacred cow. Yes, I do prohibit check-out of 
books when a popular assignment is made.
___
Funny that you should bring this up.  I just had our staff/students intershelve the 
non-fiction and reference.  I really felt like the reference just was being 
ignored.  I felt like if students could see it all, they would use it.  It has 
worked tremendously.  We have seen increased use-- and the faculty has really seen 
what we have.  Some were shocked at the good stuff that we have.  
It was a pain in the butt to move nearly every book in the library, but we did it 
and every one of us is glad.  The shelves look so nice, we've cleaned up 
everything, weeded as we went and really have a good feel for what we have.  We 
also found some shortcomings in our collection that we found just by being in the 
midst of all those books (17,000).
___
Most of our schools maintain a separate area on the floor for reference.
One school tried inter-shelving reference with nonfiction which required
home location changed in the computer for all of these resources.  Then
the next librarian came along and changed all of this back to original
condition of separated areas.  Lots of computer reword to show
designated area on the floor for resources.
Overrides in circulation control are done on occasion for reference
materials to go out for the night.
As more and more online reference becomes available this problem will
diminish as students can use passwords at home.
Reserve mentality often occurs when many students need to use the same
print material.  This is where online reference is highly popular and
password access from home.
___

> 1. We'd like to keep our "Volume Sets" non-circulating, but still intershelved 
>among all the other NF and Ref. Do you think this is wise or should we keep the 
>non-circ. volumes in another area - such as a more traditional Reference Area?
There are a few HS librarians in my district (350+ schools and 39 high schools) who 
interfile, but I have a problem with this.  When my students graduate and go on, 
they will use public libraries with a distinct REF section, and college and 
university libraries with a REF Floor.  I want them to have the concept of 
reference, what type of book with be there and how to use and locate them.   One of 
my goals is to help them be lifelong library users, so I think I need to start 
teaching them what it will be like when they graduate.

> 2. What about the idea of keeping ALL Ref books non-circulating but still keeping 
>them intershelved with the NF?  
See above.

> 3. When I leave (down the road sometime) is it going to be a problem for the next 
>Library Media Teacher to have an intershelved Ref and NF section- just because of 
>my preference?  
Of the few librarians in my district who interfile, they have each moved on to 
another school.  The new librarians have spent a summer reconstructing a ref. 
section.  I jsut spoke with one today who has spent the whole year with the 
interfiled ref section, and is now converting it back.
>
> 4. When teachers do a unit that needs resources for many classes, do we prohibit 
>check out at that time of particular titles?
I ask the teacher what their preference is.  Ref, of course, does not get checked 
out, but it is up to the teacher whether we check out nothing on the first day or 
two, or allow just one book, or wait until the end of the class days in the 
library.  (That way I can blame the no-checkout command on the teacher!)
If you are part of a school district, it might be worth having a district standard 
on this issue.
--
I interfiled our reference with nf a long time ago.  But  this is at our
elementary schools.  I didn't think of it when I was at high school.
___
When our ref gets "old" we add it to non fiction and just fix the cataloging 
record. 
___
Interesting idea.  I don't think I've ever heard of completely mixing ref and 
non-fiction.  However, I say if it is what you decide is best for your library, do 
it.  The person down the road will grumble, perhaps, but aren't you grumbling about 
some of the things your predecessor did?  And don't we all?

On the issue of check out or not check out books to students when the resources are 
being used by several classes: If it is only one teacher, I let her make the 
decision.  If it is more than one teacher, I say no...and I explain it to the 
teacher in order to get support.
___
I'm in no way an expert but I can tell you how we shelve our
reference books at my middle school.  We shelve the reference material
in with the non-fiction and we actually get more use of them now than we
did when the reference books were shelved separately.
      We keep two older encyclopedias as circulating and the others
non-circulating as well as promoting World Book on-line for those with
computers.  We keep our other non-circulation with the reference and
just label them as non-circulating.
      When teachers are doing a research project, we keep all the books
related to that subject on a cart for the teacher so he/she can bring
the classes in and research in the library and have all the books are
available to every class.  No checkouts until the project is completed
or the teacher OKs it.
     Hope this helps.
___
Funny you should ask, we are just going through the process of doing the same 
thing. We are moving most of the reference books to the non-fiction section. I plan 
on keeping a small reference section for encyclopedia sets and dictionaries.  As 
I’m going through the R section I am making decisions on what to do with each book. 
1.      Retain a reference call no. and status but be intershelved with the 
nonfiction books
2.      Shelved in the small reference collection, which will have a different 
color spine label to tell us where to put them back.
3.      Lose reference status and be relabeled with just a standard nonfiction 
Dewey number.
4.      Weeded, we are doing a lot of that!
Ref. Status allows for limited check out only.
Our reason for doing this is that, with the advent of the Internet, students seem 
to think they can get all their information online. We are adapting our curriculum 
so that we can teach them how to evaluate the information they find online. I am 
purchasing more online resources for them now. My hope is that more books will get 
used if they are located in the nonfiction collection. This also frees up a section 
of shelving for us that we can turn into a YA section for our high school students. 
Currently all of our collection is interselved for students in grades 6-12. I am 
loosing the higher level readers who don’t like having such a large collection to 
browse.  It will be less confusing for sixth graders too when they don’t have books 
they can’t check out amongst the books we want them to read.
I too wondered yesterday what my replacement will think I was thinking but I have 
to follow my instincts based on what I observe. Your query confirms my convictions 
that we need to design our libraries to fit the needs of today’s students. 
___
No flames or bullets here--just a few reflections.  You have to make the
decisions for your situation.  the advantage of the LM_Net group is that
someone may present a point of view that you had not thought of.
I have changed many of my books from Ref to NF.  I do circulate all of
those.  The ones I tend to leave in REF are those things such as general
encyclopedias and dictionaries, Current biography, who's who, some of
the subject specific encyclopedias (health, medical) etc.  When teachers
are doing a unit we pull the resources, place them on a special study
carrel or shelf and do not allow students to check them out.  Often we
have the students finding the resources they need and putting them on
the special shelf.  Then after a few days the teacher will allow certain
students to check out some of the resources if only that student is
using that book.  Other books are checked out only for a class hour or
overnight.
___
I have intershelved but changed the call number to a nf....Reference still remains 
non-circulating except for an older set of encyclopedias...I also intershelved 
dictionaries for students who need one at home.  There is also one on the reference 
that does not leave.  Is it hard for someone else coming in.....Well.....maybe 
so...but access is the key and knowing your patrons is another....so if that is the 
heart behind it you are doing the right thing....
___
Actually your idea is very practical.  But why not circulate everything?
I need circulate the volume sets--overnight only--because we would need
those books during the day. But that is a way to solve the dilemma of
what to do--just make the R circulate overnight. I really never had
anyone ask to check out Granger's Index to Poetry.  I also found if I
circulated the books--the kids were far less likely to tear out the
page(s) they needed or to steal the books.  I know this isn't a problem
everywhere, but it was in my school
It will not be a problem for the next librarian. She/he can change it if
she wants to.  Everyone makes changes when they are new anyway.  It's
kind of like putting our own brand on our space.
___
If you think it will work for you do it. Don't worry about the next
librarian that is in your school. That person can either change it back
or try it to see if it works for her.

Books that are reference type books that you don't want to be checked
out color code. My reference books have a yellow tape below the call
number. This indicates that it is reference and can only be checked out
for overnight. I used cloth tape for years, but now I do my labels in
WORD and add a rectangular box below the call number in the colors that
I use.
Yellow for reference, Blue for oversized, Red for biographies, Green for
professional.  I use to use Red for fiction but I've put the fiction
books into the 800's. This is so that I can have my paperbacks and
fiction books shelved next to each other.
___
I say do what you want... Don't worry about the next librarian - he/she will want 
to put their own stamp on in it.
I have done many things in my 42 years - I did shelve non book and book together 
for a few years --- created a shelving problem (sizes) but it was fun while it 
lasted.
I have thought about shelving all non fiction and ref together - but my library has 
a balcony and all non fiction is up stairs - reference is downstairs - not sure how 
it would work here.
I wouldn't have the problem or circulating or non - as everything circulates - all 
media, all reference, etc.
I do have a close reserve section - usually on book carts (with teacher's name) or 
behind the circulation desk. When you work alone (no aide) you have to be creative 
- make it easy for yourself - and be very flexible.
Tradition is always to be questioned (that's the Episcopalian in me) - change what 
you want as long it is works more effectively for the students and you.
___
Liz Dodds 
LMT, Bullard High School 
Fresno, California 
lizdodds@sbcglobal.net
559.451.4405




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